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  #1  
Old 05-16-2010, 08:12 PM
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Default How to Bleed Brakes without ABS tool

My brake pedal in my 93 is feeling mushy as hell. How does one go about bleeding the brakes without that special ford tool that plugs into the harness?
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Old 05-16-2010, 08:33 PM
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The same way you bleed the brakes on every other car.
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  #3  
Old 05-16-2010, 08:38 PM
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My service book says that wont work.
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Old 05-16-2010, 08:57 PM
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Just bleed them normally, it will work.
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Old 05-16-2010, 09:33 PM
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it wont be 100% the same tho... my dad just got the tool for $36 on close out from his work if u want it i can see if he has any more. its normally $120 or so
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Old 05-16-2010, 09:35 PM
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I just find a gravel or dirt road and speed up to 20 or 25mph and do 3 or 4 emergency stops making sure the ABS kicks on. Then go back and bleed the system again.
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  #7  
Old 05-16-2010, 10:11 PM
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LjRuddy My ABS will work for one emergency stop then the light turns on and it wont work for another day or so.
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Old 05-17-2010, 12:09 AM
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You can bleed the calipers just fine without any special equipment.

The special stuff is for bleeding the ABS portion of the brake system. If this is what you want to do, and you don't have either the Ford dealie or the Thexton TEVES ABS box, the gravel road method is your only choice (AFAIK). If that doesn't work (as you've described above), then you've probably got other problems (i.e. bad ABS pump or ABS computer).
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Old 05-17-2010, 12:15 AM
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So Bleeding my brakes normally will get rid of mushy pedal feeling? IT takes good travel on the pedal to get a lot of brake power.
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Old 05-17-2010, 12:52 AM
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If done properly, and assuming that your master cylinder and all the associated goodies are in normal working condition, yes, it should. And without any special tools.

When I bleed my brakes, all I use is a properly-sized box-end wrench for the bleeder screws, some tubing and a jar with some fresh fluid in it.

Now, if you bleed all four corners (and you should move from furthest from the master cylinder to closest-- that's RR, LR, RF, LF), topping off the reservoir in between each one, and all of the bubbles are out of the system, and you still have a spongy/soft pedal, you may have a bad master cylinder assembly.

The ABS stuff doesn't even come into it until the ABS engages. But if you're getting an ABS light, it could be related to the same cause of the soft pedal. I'd recommend pulling the ABS DTCs.

Reproduced from another thread, here are the instructions for that:

ABS Data Link Connctor (C170) viewed from pin face:

.../------------\
../....[.]....[G]....\
./......................\
/..[.]..[.]..[T]..[.]..\
--------------------

L = Warning lamp to dash
G = Ground
T = Trigger

To pull codes, use a paperclip to jumper the ground and trigger pins together.
Turn ignition key to RUN without starting engine.
Count ABS light flashes to get two-digit code. Each code takes about 15 seconds if there are multiple codes.

ABS Error codes:

11 (ABS Module)
17 (Reference Voltage Problem)
22 (LH Front Inlet Valve)
23 (LH Front Outlet Valve)
24 (RH Front Inlet Valve)
25 (RH Front Outlet Valve)
26 (RH Rear Inlet Valve)
27 (RH Rear Outlet Valve)
28 (LH Rear Inlet Valve)
29 (LH Rear Outlet Valve)
31 (LH Front Sensor)
32 (RH Front Sensor)
33 (RH Rear Sensor)
34 (LH Rear Sensor)
35 (LH Front Sensor)
36 (RH Front Sensor)
37 (RH Rear Sensor)
38 (LH Rear Sensor)
41 (LH Front Sensor)
42 (RH Front Sensor)
43 (RH Rear Sensor)
44 (LH Rear Sensor)
51 (LH Front Outlet Valve)
52 (RH Front Outlet Valve)
53 (RH Rear Outlet Valve)
54 (LH Rear Outlet Valve)
55 (LH Front Sensor)
56 (RH Front Sensor)
57 (RH Rear Sensor)
58 (LH Rear Sensor)
61 (FLS Circuits)
62 (Travel Switch)
63 (Pump Motor Speed Sensor)
64 (Pump Motor Pressure)
67 (Pump Motor Relay)
71 (LH Front Sensor)
72 (RH Front Sensor)
73 (RH Rear Sensor)
74 (LH Rear Sensor)
75 (LH Front Sensor)
76 (RH Front Sensor)
77 (RH Rear Sensor)
78 (LH Rear Sensor)

Good luck with it.
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  #11  
Old 05-17-2010, 04:16 AM
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did you recently change pads?
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Old 05-17-2010, 08:22 AM
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No I've never changed the pads on this car. They have plenty of material left right now.


Brb, gonna run ABS codes
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Old 05-17-2010, 08:57 AM
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A mushy pedal could be caused by seized up slider pins, making the caliper piston travel a lot farther then necessary to squeeze the rotor. When I first got my 93, the metal portion of the LF brake hose was bent the wrong way pulling the hose tight and causing a spongy long travel pedal. I carefully bent it back so the hose wasn't being pulled tight. Or, a bad master could cause a spongy pedal. A bad master is a possibility too, but doesn't seem to be that common on these cars.
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  #14  
Old 05-17-2010, 09:03 AM
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None of my hoses are bent, I went over that when I bought the car. What exactly is a slider pin? You lost me on that. Also the master seems good because it hold its vacuum and it doesn't leak fluid.

My code was 67 (Pump Motor Relay)

Does that relay fail often on these cars? Like I said my abs is good for one shot and after that, no abs.
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Old 05-17-2010, 09:13 AM
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The slider pins on the front of a 93 are the bolts with a torx head that hold the caliper to the steering knuckle, the caliper needs to be able to slide freely over the pins. Take them out and grease them up good if they haven't been out in a while. Work them in and out of the hole a few times to makes sure they're free. On the rear, the slider pins are what the caliper attaches to the bracket with. There are rubber boots between the end of the pin and the caliper bracket. The pins need to be able to slide in and out of the bracket freely. If you take the caliper off the bracket, the pins should very easily be moved in and out by hand. If not, pull them out and grease them up good and make sure they stay free. They sell silicone based brake lube for that purpose.
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Old 05-17-2010, 09:25 AM
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Ah! I never knew the specific name for those parts. The front ones were out less than a month ago and the rear ones were out last year. They all look fine.
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Old 05-17-2010, 02:59 PM
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Here's the diagnostic flowchart for an ABS code 67, from the Ford Service Manual:

DTC 67
Possible Source(s):
§ Pump motor running not triggered by anti-lock brake control module.
Action(s) to Take:
§ Go to «Pinpoint Test Step E1».

================================================== =================
E1 VERIFY PUMP MOTOR CONDITION

l With vehicle standing still:
l Check if pump motor (2C256) runs with ignition switch (11572) in RUN or OFF position.
l Does pump motor (2C256) run with ignition switch in the OFF position?

Yes
GO to «E2»

No
GO to «E3».
================================================== =================

================================================== =================
E2 CHECK PUMP MOTOR RELAY

l Remove pump motor relay.
l Check for continuity between Pin 30 and test pin on the relay.
l Is continuity present?

Yes
REPLACE pump motor relay.

No
REVERIFY that pump motor (2C256) runs with ignition switch (11572) in OFF position.
================================================== =================

================================================== =================
E3 CHECK CIRCUIT 539 TO GROUND

l Turn ignition switch (11572) to the OFF position.
l Disconnect anti-lock brake wiring plug from anti-lock brake control module (2B373).
l Connect Rotunda EEC-IV Breakout Box 014-00322 with Anti-Lock Test Adapter T90P-50-ALA or equivalent to the 55-pin plug anti-lock brake wiring (2C054).
l Check for continuity between breakout box Pins 15 and 60.
l Is continuity present?

Yes
GO to «E4».

No
GO to «E5».
================================================== =================

================================================== =================
E4 CHECK CIRCUIT 539

l Disconnect pump motor relay from wire harness.
l Check for continuity between Breakout Box Pins 15 and 60.
l Is continuity present?

Yes
SERVICE or REPLACE cable harness Circuit 539 (PK/LB).

No
REPLACE pump motor relay.
================================================== =================

================================================== =================
E5 CHECK ANTI-LOCK BRAKE CONTROL MODULE

l Reconnect pump motor relay and anti-lock brake control module (2B373).
l Turn ignition switch (11572) to the RUN position.
l Does pump motor (2C256) run?

Yes
REPLACE anti-lock brake control module (2B373).

No
REVERIFY symptom.
================================================== =================
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Old 05-17-2010, 04:13 PM
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I dont even know how to check to see if the motor runs....
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Old 05-17-2010, 04:32 PM
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If it's running, you should hear it. Alternatively, you can put your hand/fingertips on it and feel for vibrations; I think it can be reached from either under the car or from the top, under the hood. It's the big black pump-looking thing with all of the brake line connections coming out of it, under the master cylinder.

Last edited by jonheese; 05-17-2010 at 04:36 PM.
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Old 05-17-2010, 04:53 PM
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its always running?
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Old 05-17-2010, 04:59 PM
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It's not supposed to, but a code 67 indicates that it might be failing in such a way that causes it to run all the time, so it's part of the troubleshooting procedure to check if it's running.

If operating correctly, it should only run when the ABS is engaged; i.e. when you're stopping with too little traction.
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Old 05-17-2010, 05:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wakeboy1337 View Post
The front ones were out less than a month ago and the rear ones were out last year. They all look fine.
It is good annual maintenance to inspect the boots and re-grease the pins.
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Old 05-17-2010, 07:54 PM
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I"m not all too concerned about operational ABS atm, I want fully working brakes first and I want to bleed everything. Is there a way to jump some pins and do what that tool would normally do? Tomorrow morning I'll see about that ABS pump motor.
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Old 05-17-2010, 08:24 PM
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Nah, if you're just focusing on the soft pedal, forget about the ABS stuff for now.

If I were you, I'd bleed all four corners a LOT, making sure to keep topping off the fluid reservoir as you go (maybe have a second or third-- depending on your bleeding procedure-- person under the hood topping it off as it drops) to make sure you don't pull any air into the lines, and keep going until you get clean fluid out of the bleeders. Bleed all four corners this way, going from farthest from the MC to closest.

If, after you've done that (essentially a full brake flush, minus the ABS stuff, which is dormant during normal braking anyway), you still have a soft pedal, you may have a (rare) failed/failing MC. At that point, I'd say to pull the MC and do a bench bleed on it to determine if it's still good or not.

Unless the ABS pump itself is leaking somewhere (and you should see fluid somewhere if that's the case), the ABS system is NOT the source of your soft pedal.
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Old 05-17-2010, 08:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jonheese View Post
Nah, if you're just focusing on the soft pedal, forget about the ABS stuff for now.

If I were you, I'd bleed all four corners a LOT, making sure to keep topping off the fluid reservoir as you go (maybe have a second or third-- depending on your bleeding procedure-- person under the hood topping it off as it drops) to make sure you don't pull any air into the lines, and keep going until you get clean fluid out of the bleeders. Bleed all four corners this way, going from farthest from the MC to closest.

If, after you've done that (essentially a full brake flush, minus the ABS stuff, which is dormant during normal braking anyway), you still have a soft pedal, you may have a (rare) failed/failing MC. At that point, I'd say to pull the MC and do a bench bleed on it to determine if it's still good or not.

Unless the ABS pump itself is leaking somewhere (and you should see fluid somewhere if that's the case), the ABS system is NOT the source of your soft pedal.
Not bleed, a full flush.

If you are ever going to do brakes agin, get a Motive pressure bleeder:

http://www.motiveproducts.com/

This product rocks!! I always get a hard pedal after every flush (at every brake pad change).

I use the Universal setup. The Ford-specific cap sounds fine, but the threads on the Ford m/c is too wimpy to hold 15-20 psi that works best with the bleeder.

And no, you don't need to bleed the ABS. I used to have a Thexton unit to bleed the ABS, but I sold it. I live off a gravel road.
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Old 05-17-2010, 08:50 PM
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Right, bleed wasn't the right word. I did say "flush" in the 3rd paragraph, but thanks for clarifying what I was trying to say.

Also, I second the Motive power bleeder. I don't own one, but I've seen one in action before, and the next time I do brakes (which is probably coming soon), I will probably get one. I think this is the universal one Ron's talking about:
http://store.motiveproducts.com/roun...-0101-p60.aspx

Last edited by jonheese; 05-17-2010 at 08:56 PM.
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Old 05-17-2010, 09:56 PM
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One other concern is that after i get nice new fluid in the system, once my abs engages once. I'll have old fluid mixed in or a mushy pedal again. Or is that not how it works. I'm not used to abs.
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Old 05-17-2010, 09:57 PM
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That's pretty much right, except that there isn't really much fluid sitting in the ABS system, so the amount that it will release, compared to the amount in the lines, MC, calipers, etc., is pretty small. I wouldn't worry about it.
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Old 05-17-2010, 10:01 PM
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Thanks mr. "Kno-it-all". But srsly. Thanks goes to all of you. I'll see about getting my lazy bum to bleed the brakes tomorrow and tell you all how it goes.
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Old 05-17-2010, 10:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wakeboy1337 View Post
I'll see about getting my lazy bum to flush the brakes tomorrow and tell you all how it goes.
Fixt, a la Mr. Porter.

No problem.
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