SHO motor project, new to SHO motor.

Discussion in 'Engine, Intake, Exhaust and Drive Line' started by Zach'sV6, Apr 15, 2010.

  1. Zach'sV6

    Zach'sV6 SHO Member

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    Hello,

    Never posted before.

    I'm building an SHO powered 2000 mustang. The original motor crapped out (badly) and I've decided to build the car up with the parts Ford should have been using in the first place.

    So I have the motor, it's a 1991 3.0 motor that just turned 100k. It was old-lady driven prior to that.

    I need some pointers since I've never dealt with this motor before.

    My plan was to put new main and rod bearings in it, maybe re-ring it but I'm not too comfortable with the honing process. The other option is to bore it out about half a mm and put forged pistons in it. However, being that forged pistons are heavier than hypers, i'd have to take the whole rotating assembly to the shop and have it balanced. Plus, I don't know how well the stock rods can handle a heavier piston at higher rpm.

    Anyone have advice on honing and re-ringing? con bearings? mains?

    I have a conservative goal for this motor. I'd like to be in the range of 300 to 330hp with a single T04B/E ~.70 A/R. No more than 10-12psi boost, intercooled. Behind it will be a TKO, T56, or V16X going to a 2pc custom driveshaft terminating in a Cobra IRS with full aluminum/delrin bushings. The whole thing rides on coilovers and 17x9 Conti DW's.

    BTW, if anyone cares, making a bellhousing from scratch that mates this motor to a RWD tranny is effin tough. 1987 Aerostar bellhousings will fit, but...hydraulic TOB vs mechanical in the mustang with no room for a slave or master cyl...not gonna happen.

    Also, car will have the stock flywheel and, probably, a multi-disc tilton 7-1/2" clutch. I'm not sure yet. Finding a clutch disc with a 10 or 26 spline input that is approximately 9-3/4" has been...tough...so far.

    The next motor, once I hash out the installation will be a thoroughly race prepped 3.2 with forged low-comp Venolia pistons, fully studded, copper head gaskets, peened or custom rods, prepped crank, 4340 girdle, ported, cammed, alum flywheel, tilton puck clutch, sequential turbo's, a sequential tranny, north of 700hp, etc etc. That's coming together, but slowly...and that's for a later post.

    Also, the plastic timing belt cover is cracked and I don't care if the belt is covered or not, i kind of prefer not. Does anyone else run theirs this way?

    -Zach'sV6
     
  2. SHO_ROLLER_2

    SHO_ROLLER_2 SHO Member

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    Sounds like a pretty sweet project!!

    I don't know what others will say, but with only 100K miles on it I wouldn't touch the bearings or anything else on that motor. I'm going to do my rod bearings soon but I have 200K+ miles on her. Change to Mobil 1 though, awesome stuff!

    I'd do basic bolt-ons and 100 shot of N20!!! Easy and effective!

    Good luck and can't wait to see it completed!:wave:
     
  3. 92sho16

    92sho16 boosted

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    I strongly dissagree with that most SHO motors will be either showing copper or getting close to showing copper on the rods by the time 120k rolls around. If he is boosting changing the rods bearings is a must. The mains on the other hand would probably be ok but if you building a motor you might as well replace them.



    To the OP, at 10-12 psi intercoolered i would expect to be making closer to 400 hp. Sounds like a really cool project. Post some pics as you make progress.
     
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  4. LOUDSHO92

    LOUDSHO92 Club Mod Staff Member Sponsoring Member

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    The rods will be fine even into the 12+psi range. SHONut already has forged pistons.
     
  5. SHOmethewayhome

    SHOmethewayhome BAD ROLE MODEL

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    I run without the middle cover right now. i had a timing tensioner stud snap on me, and with the lack of rain and other water on the road i dont really fear water gettting to the crank sensor other than the water pump.

    i suppose you could run without it, or at the very least the top one. it doesn't sound like you plan on driving in anything less than good weather conditions.
     
  6. sho_sc

    sho_sc SHO Member

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    For one, I do believe that you can get 700 wHP out of a 3.0L without going nuts with the bottom end. My 3.0L SHO has seen 21 psi of boost, regulary runs 18-19 psi, and has stayed together for 25K miles so far. Other than pistons, it's nearly stock internally.

    I would do the rod bearings in your current build and that's it, limit the boost to 10 psi to get everything working right.
     
  7. Zach'sV6

    Zach'sV6 SHO Member

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    I'm not worried about boost snapping the rods. Rods RARELY fail in compression in any motor. What kills rods is trying to yank a heavy piston down during the intake stroke. Look at any snapped rod and they almost always fail in tension and/or less commonly, in bending (locked up a journal or had an area of tension stress on the rod surface)

    I guess I just have to see the weight comparison between the stock pistons, Wiseco lightweight forged, Wiseco HD forged, Venolia and JB.

    Someone said that the SHO pistons were single crystal. I'm not so sure about that. The single crystal process is used in turbine and compressor blades, primarily to resist creep deformation at extremely high compressor/fan speeds. I'm not sure how necessary or practical it would be in any IC engine. Plus the cost, even now with accelerated growth processes, is breathtaking.


    Does anyone know whether these motors take to being re-ringed? I can hone the bore with a drill and a soft hone. But, has anyone else done this successfully? A soft hone would take off material in the 1/10000th range, basically just deglaze it. I've done it on larger motors, just nothing this small before.

    -Zach'sV6
     
  8. Zach'sV6

    Zach'sV6 SHO Member

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    Also, crank angle sensors can be weatherproofed with epoxy, but i've never seen one that needed to be.

    -Zach
     
  9. SHOmethewayhome

    SHOmethewayhome BAD ROLE MODEL

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    interested to hear someone else respond to this, as i'm about to do this to one of my engines. its more to knock down a fine fine layer of surface oxidation and dried oil that's built up from being stored. for the last few years.

    I may just spray some marvel mystery oil down the pipes and let the piston rings scrape it all off by cranking the engine by hand. but i'm also hoping that the soft honing by hand and a new set of rings will fix the blowby problem i'm having in my other engine. I may just have to suck it up and punch it slightly over.

    looking forward to your build. remember like most forums, we LOVE pictures so take lots!
     
  10. SHOmethewayhome

    SHOmethewayhome BAD ROLE MODEL

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    if the water pump goes... it makes it rain all over the CrankPS

    i've had it happen. sucks.
     
  11. Zach'sV6

    Zach'sV6 SHO Member

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    One thing while I was thinking of pistons. Hypereutectic alloys are alloys (aluminum + silicon for pistons) that are to the right of the eutectoid point on a phase diagram. It sounds cool but it really just means a cast piston with a higher silicon content (16% to 19% for hypers vs. 12% or less for as-cast). These are dimensionally stable at the temperatures they encounter in an IC engine.

    Despite what the hyper manufacturers would have you think. Hypereutectic pistons allow an engine designer to use a piston that has a tight fit at cold (start-up) temperatures the sole purpose for which is to reduce blowby (pollution) when the engine is cold. These are "smog" pistons. They offer no significant increase in strength over a cast piston, only dimensional stability at operating temperature.

    Really, hypereutectic "smog" pistons are somewhat brittle and cannot survive a detonation event as well as a lower silicon "cast" piston. It also depends on the alloy, 4032, 2618, other rare alloys.

    You could have a forged hypereutectic piston that would be dimensionally stable and far tougher than a cast hypereutectic piston. I believe the pistons in the newest low emission diesels are done this way.

    In any case, forged pistons are tougher all around. No void spaces, uniform grain structure, etc., but slightly heavier, volume for volume. The upside is that with the increased strength, you can make the skirts and deck thinner and still have a tougher piston that is as light as a cast piston. THAT is the piston I want to find for the SHO.

    -Zach'sV6
     
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  12. LOUDSHO92

    LOUDSHO92 Club Mod Staff Member Sponsoring Member

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    SHONut has the pistons you need. They have a good selection of Wesco Pistons. The pistons have been used on many SHOs both boosted and N/A.
     
  13. somedude_001

    somedude_001 SHO Member

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    if you are looking to running 10-12 psi don't bother with aftermarket pistons until you are ready to build your big power engine.
     
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  14. Off Road SHO

    Off Road SHO Moderator Staff Member

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    Don't know what tranny you're going with but I will be making another adaptor to mate the SHO block with later model Tremec transmissions; the T-600 and the TKO, maybe even the T45 and T-3550?

    Tom
     
  15. Brett

    Brett SHOs before HOs

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    Are you sure what you've got there is a 3.0? i don't see too many old ladys driving with a clutch pedal.

    If the motor runs fine and has good compression, and u really want to give it a good cleaning, just take out each piston, dont hone, clean up the original rings and put it back in. Plenty of people here have done just that with good results. If i were you id change the rod bearings and call it a day. Dont touch the main bearings unless you really want to, they're not a common fail point. Also i dont think anyone here has ever snapped a rod from running forged pistons, as long as everything was balanced. Crank and rods are forged stock. Also with 10-12psi your going to be making more then 300-330hp.

    People do run with them off.

    There are a couple people here that have done RWD conversions or are in the process that could help you ALOT it'd definitely be worth giving them a PM.
     
  16. TimboSHO

    TimboSHO Novice

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    When I put my 3.2 in the 91, I honed the cylinders and reringed with 'stock' Hastings rings. Every seal (including vavle stem seals) is new in the motor and it runs like a top with not a drop of oil burning or leaking. There were no drivability issues with the 3.2 when it came out, I just wanted to make sure everything was fresh inside and it would last awhile :thumb:
     
  17. TimboSHO

    TimboSHO Novice

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    If it's a 91, it's a 3.0...... :)
     
  18. Brett

    Brett SHOs before HOs

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    Yea i got that, im just curious as to if he had actually seen the engine in car, if he pulled it, or if he was told its from a 91. Or how positive he is that it was old lady owned and driven. :) Not a big deal by any means, was more curiousity then anything.
     
  19. Zach'sV6

    Zach'sV6 SHO Member

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    The date code/build code sticker on the motor on one of the valve covers indicated 1991, could be 92 car, but the motor was built in 91. The "old lady" was really only about 50 (not old) when she sold it, so she was probably in her 30's when she bought it.

    I just have the motor tho. She sold it when the fuel pump went out and the guy that bought it used it to repair another SHO. All but the motor and wiring.

    I took the pan off this afternoon. The cylinders still have crosshatching on them so mu gut feeling is that the motor is in fine shape. That being said, as long as I have it on the stand, i'll replace the bearings.

    YES, by the way, i'd like to know ALOT more about the adapter plate.

    -Zach'sV6
     
  20. Zach'sV6

    Zach'sV6 SHO Member

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    "old lady" being gently driven. It was used as a commuter car, wasn't raced.
     

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